By
Mat Herron(A shorter version of this Q&A appears in the Feb. 27 edition of LEO, and online at leoweekly.com.)
Afrykah Wubsaudaevent coordinator/MC
LEO: Do you consider Louisville diverse?
Afrykah Wubsauda: Aesthetically, Louisville is diverse … What I mean is, that if we measure diversity based on the naked eye, and without inquiring into the inner structure, then it is easy to believe that Louisville is diverse. Louisville is the home of many ethnicities as well as many companies that reserve key “position” for the token minority. However, Louisville is still very conservative in regards to full integration. We appear diverse, although we still have many businesses that openly discriminate against blacks and Hispanics. We appear diverse, even though there is a disparity within the justice system in regards to how minorities are charged and sentenced. There are so many disparities that I could name that would be considered counter-diversified, but we only see (them) when we take a closer look.
LEO: What does the word diversity mean to you?
AW: Diversity to me means to remove the lines that divide us by bringing us all together. It also means multicultural.
LEO: Who, in Louisville, is responsible for ensuring that it is as diverse as it should be?
AW: Ultimately we all have a responsibility in maintaining diversity, but I also realize that this country was built and thrives on a division of class and race. As long as we, as a whole, are in acceptance that some people are deemed inferior or are discriminated against for any reason, diversity will never truly exist, and it ultimately rest in the hands of all local leadership.
LEO: Does Louisville have a race problem, and if so, what, exactly, is it?
AW: Absolutely. We must consider that when we reflect on Kentucky’s position in the Civil War — that it was both a Union and Confederate state — this indicates to me that Kentucky has a significant amount of residents that were against the freeing of slaves, and their spirit continues to live through many parts of the state. Just a month ago, a man was refused service to a restaurant on the basis that he wore gold teeth. It is quite often that bars and clubs refuse service to black patrons based on total stereotypical reasons. Every day, a minority is pulled over or detained simply because of (his or her) ethnic status or cultural status. Being an event coordinator, I have had many instances where my money had less value than my white counterparts when doing business with many of the same venues. So yes, race is a problem, because there are people and powers-that-be who have not accepted diversity as the order of the day. For every instance where we have promise, there are those who oppose diversity and stop at nothing to maintain the status quo.
LEO: What are some tangible, grass-roots level, every-day things we as Louisvillians should do to cultivate diversity?
AW: Well first let me say that I am for cultivating diversity as it relates to living in peace and harmony. However, I’m not for cultivating diversity as it relates to multiculturalism. For me, multiculturalism is simply a vessel used to encourage people to deny their African status, which is usually the most obvious status, since dark melonin usually dominates the pigment. At the end of the day, perception is reality. I mean that to say if I were African American, Irish American or Italian American, but my skin is dark, then it really does not matter that I am Irish or Italian, when I’m being mistreated according to the color of my skin. Those ethnic labels will afford me nothing when it is only about what others perceive me to be. In essence, the only thing that we can do to cultivate diversity is respect each other as we would like to be respected. Nothing more, nothing less.
LEO: Do you believe we will have, by the end of this century, achieved a
post-racial America? Why or why not?
AW: Absolutely not. In order for us as individuals and as a collective to achieve a race-free America, we have to tackle the three R’s: repentance, redemption and retribution. This country first has to be sorry (repentance) for the hand that they have had in slavery and the class divisions that exist, and also be willing to accept responsibility for all of the horrible side effects of it.
When we are truly sorry we should seek to redeem ourselves (redemption) whether it be through verbal apologies private and public as well as many other gestures that promote our repentance. Last is retribution. Retribution is the debt that we pay to society when we are found guilty of disrupting it. As long as America refuses to show redemption and refuses to acknowledge and make right their wrongs we will continue in this manner.
LEO: Have you ever been a victim of racism or a racist act? If so, what effect did that have on you?
AW: I have been faced with racism on many occasions and at many different phases of my life…naturally my understanding of racism is more informed than it was when I was 10 years old so I deal with it differently. As an adult it is very unsettling and has caused me to be extremely cautious of my interactions with people who are not like me…it's burden that I doubt that I will ever be free of.
LEO: When someone uses the terms “white” or "black," what do those terms mean to you? Do those terms have an effect, if at all, on the way you see yourself, or other people, especially from other races?
AW: No … Black and white for me are acceptable because metaphorically it is the most accurate way to draw the distinctions.
LEO: As an African-American woman in hip-hop, you must hear stereotypes about your gender constantly. Why, in your opinion, is this tactic still a part of hip hop and rap, and what should rap do about it?
AW: Wow. Plain and simple: This is a man’s world. Being a black woman, I have the burden of the ills that come along with being black and with being female. Everywhere on the face of the planet, there is a disparity that exist among the sexes. Hell, the very Bible supports (the notion) that women were created second, therefore have a second-class status in life. Although America provides more opportunity for women than any other country, it is still very limited. An example of this is the overwhelming number of residents who are openly opposed to the prospect of Hillary Clinton being our next president. At the end of the day, hip hop represents the same gender disparities as the rest of the world, and as long as this disparity is the agenda of the world, hip hop will follow suit because, after all, it is the American way.
Butch Ricesinger-songwriter
LEO: Have you ever been a victim of racism, or of a racist comment? If so, what happened, and how did you react to it?
Butch Rice: Yes, I’ve been a victim of racism but seldom overt. It’s mostly subtle.
Overt: As I prepared to play a show a bar in St. Matthew’s, the bar manager answered the phone, looked upset, and hung up the phone. The caller had seen my picture in the LEO and wanted to know if a lot of blacks would be coming to the bar.
Subtle: I’m carrying two acoustic guitars and a female patron looks at me quizzically and asks,”So, you’ll be rapping tonight?”
Subtle: A bar owner once said to me, “So you’re Butch? What do you do in the band? Are you the drummer?” To which I answered, “No.” He then quickly added, “Oh, so you’re the bass player!” To which I answered, ”No, I’m the lead singer and I play rhythm guitar.” He walked away looking very puzzled.
Overt: A woman asked me to play a song by Al Green. I told her I didn’t know any Al Green. Then she asked for Sam Cooke. Again, I told her I didn’t know any Sam Cooke. She then said, “What kind of black musician are you?” and walked away.
LEO: When someone uses the phrase, "affirmative action," what do you think of?
BR: I think of laws designed to compensate for federal, state, and local
discriminatory practices that denied fair consideration to women and minority groups seeking to exercise their basic rights as U.S. citizens.
LEO: What is the role of a musician, or any artist for that matter, when discussing race?
BR: The role of any artist is to create or reveal something new that still echoes of the familiar. It can, and should, embrace any topic, including race.
LEO: Do you think race is a factor in the way we communicate with one another? Do you ever see a time where that won't be the case?
BR: It’s a given that race is factor in the way we communicate with one another. If not, you would not be asking this question. My parents, grandparents and great grandparents grew up under Jim Crow. Their schools, entertainment venues, churches and neighborhoods were almost always designated by race and enforced by the legal system. The effects of Jim Crow still linger in several aspects of our society. However, look at the 2008 Democratic race for the presidential nominee. For the first time in our history, the presidential nominee will be a woman or an African-American male. Great strides of progress have been made but the journey is far from over.
Teneia SandersSinger-songwriter
LEO: Should race and ethnicity matter today? if so, why? if not, why not?
Teneia Sanders: Of course not, but there are pros and cons to these differences (in race and ethnicities) in our culture. These issues should have never mattered in the first place and I think a lot of the past is still haunting us today. Race and ethnicity is a difficult subject in our society. Most people act as if race/ethnicity isn't an issue but there are several recent events that have proven differently like: the noosing that was currently in the media and even the presidential election that is coming up. But with all of that said if we didn't have different races and ethnicities the world would be pretty bland. We'd all be extremely boring and some ridiculous color, like fuchsia.
LEO: What is it like being a musician who’s black in Louisville? When you go to shows, do people treat you differently? Are you skeptical of how they interact with you? Is it, in general, awkward?
TS: When I first moved here I just thought, “I’m just another female singer-songwriter trying to work her way into the scene", until a friend told me that maybe me being an African- American woman could work to my advantage and that my race is a "golden ticket" so to speak. Initially, I got kind of angry, but I realized that anything that makes you different is a plus. There is so much talent in Louisville and if me being a minority makes me a little more interesting (because of perception) then I am proud of it. People usually judge me when I walk into a room. I had a guy say "hey are you doing the blues?" I replied " I'm doing singer-songwriter style folk/soul." He goes "Oh, you're gonna cover all of Tracy Chapman's songs?" I said, "Actually, dumb ass, I write my own songs."
I've built a foundation here and Louisville has been great at accepting me for my talent and not for my skin color so that's always nice. There is kindness here.
LEO: Do you consider Louisville diverse, why or why not?
TS: Louisville is for sure diverse in comparison to where I just left. There are so many ethnicities here and so many people that have migrated here from different countries and states. It a (much) smaller version of New York, as that it is a "melting pot." I love the fact that I have learned a lot about many avant-garde types of music such as: Afro-pop, Russian gypsy music, Arabic, even experimental alt country. I love it! Louisville has become water for me, and I am soaking it up like a sponge.
LEO: Where did you grow up, and what was your neighborhood like?
TS: I grew up in Jackson, Miss., in a urban area. My neighborhood was actually pretty rough from age 10 until 14, then we moved to a better neighborhood in 1996. The cool thing about where I grew up in the earlier years is that we always had radios to dance too, we always had songs that we would sing on the porch and we always laughed. It was a tight community with mothers looking over everybody's children and all of us having so much support. As far as the diversity goes, Jackson needs a lot of help. There is so much negative history in the state of Mississippi (regarding race) that I don't think diversity could be accepted until people are more knowledgeable. All things aren't bad there — my friends and family are diverse — but as a whole the city and state needs work.
LEO: Is Louisville doing all it can to be a diverse and welcoming city? Why or why not?
TS: I think so. I'm proud to live here because I feel like this city has been a constant metamorphosis musically and culturally, even in the last 3 years since I've been here. I think with the right tools Louisville can become a city like Austin.
LEO: What are the barriers to achieving diversity?
TS: Educating ourselves more. Our perceptions can be some narrow sometimes, and I think if we all just stepped outside of our boxes that we would be so glad that we didn't go through our lives shallow and intolerant. You don't have to agree with everyone but at least try to understand their differences. Because those things are the beauty in the world.
LEO: Do you think we will ever rid ourselves of stereotypes?
TS: It’s impossible unless we were all blind, And I think even then we would judge each others voices: redneck, proper, southern, northern … the list can go on for days. The root of the problem in stereotypes is just ignorance. An open mind can get you a lot of places in life.
LEO: A woman and an African-American man are running for the Democratic nomination for the U.S. president. What effect has this race had on you, as an African-American and as a woman?
TS: Oh my God, I am so excited, because this democratic nomination — whichever way it goes (preferably Obama), is finally symbolizing change in the U.S. This is the moment that I can tell my kids about one day: “I was there when the first woman/African-American president was elected.” How cool is that? This election is proving the older generation wrong, and we, the young generation, are demonstrating we have a say, and we can execute this change. Whether you are a female, male or an African American, Caucasian, Indian … it doesn't matter. Just the impact alone of this moment is changing my outlook on my future, because I finally feel like there is hope for the American people. So I am proud to be a woman and an African American in 2008.
